Issue #174 - Aug. 22 2004
Captain Harlock and the Starship Arcadia
Captain Kirk and the Starship Enterprise
A tale of two captains. Legends in their own time. Both men of valor,
romance and experience. The captains have met at a bar on a distant and
mysterious planet. After a long exchange of stories and pounding down some
unknown green liquor they both begin a battle of one-up-manship. Luckily the
bar has a Khazan chamber where both men can enter to determine who is the
better captian. Both men will have access to their ships and crew. Both will
enter, both will leave, one will be victorious...
Captain Kirk - The legendary captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise. [NCC-1701]
Captain Harlock - The legendary captain of the space battleship Arcadia.
Join us now in a battle we had to call...
Oh captain, my captain...
This fight suggested by: Ranma fan
This fight written and produced by guest host: Justicar
THE SPORTS BOX
THOR: Welcome all to another grand exposition
of martial skill here at CBUB and I am... THE MIGHTY THOR.! **BRANDISHES
WONDY: Great job Thor, did you spend
all day memorizing that line. Anyway, we are proud to present another battle
for your viewing pleasure. I am Wonder Woman.
THOR: Ah yes, back from the Olympics
Diana and thinking upon Yon Olympics I understand my fatal mistake when last we battled I failed to
have you tested for performance enhancing Ambrosia. You Olympians do have a
taste for such things.
WONDY: Sore loser... and you never
showed up for coffee. We do have to worker together here, you know.
THOR: Indeed. What does the Peanut
Gallery have to say about our two captains.
What YOU thought about the match:
Okay, I've never seen an episode of the original Star Trek, and I've never heard of Captain Harlock. But even though I haven't seen Kirk and his crew in action that much, I have heard of his exploits. I also own Star Trek: Generations, and saw Kirk sacrifice himself to save millions. He has guts. I think he will win.
The Void Writes:
Well, the thing that matters isn't who Kirk battles, but if Kirk's shirt is ripped in the process. That happens, and Kirk starts to skirt Mr.T power and the universe blows up. Oh yeah, that and don't kill Spock. Kirk will go totally insane. Even if Kirk's shirt isn't ripped, you still have Bones, the infallible Mr. Spock, and of course Scotty. Yeah, Kirk takes it in a walk.
Kirk is pretty cool and all, but Harlock is just that much better. Kirk always had the Federation at his back in case things get rough, Harlock just has his ship and his crew against an empire, yet he's hung on and pulled through it all, from his first love's death before his eyes to the enslavement of his entire home planet, he just couldn't be brought down. Heck, he once killed a cyborg with a glass of milk.
Captain Starcloud of the Starship Ewok Writes:
I gotta base this fight on the ships, because I've never heard of Harlock but I know a lot about starships.
1. Unique anime ships always have some kind of Deux Ex Machina aboard that lets them defeat impossible odds. White Base had the Gundam, SDF-01 had its Super Cannon, and the Outlaw Star had arms that could hold various guns and axes.
2. Star Trek ships SUCK. Even the cream of their crop have pitifully weak weapons and dismal shields, and here we're talking about an old model. Competent captaincy can only go so far to overcome mechanic inferiority.
Despite a good showing by the crew of the Enterprise, it will be sunk quicker than the Titanic slamming into Anarctica!
Bleed and die, Enterprise! Yub yub!
I, too, have never heard of this captain Harlock fellow. However, going by sheer visual imagery -- while an eye-patch, scarred-chin and skull-and-crossbones motif is undoubtedly cool and will have the ladies (and some of the men) in the audience making a dash straigth for Harlock, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- in any known Universe than can equal Kirk's Ripped Shirt.
Game, set and match to the Enterprise, I'm afraid.
Arrogant Bastard Writes:
It's James T. Kirk we are talking about. THE greatest captain ever. There is no way he loses, ever.
The (no longer) Unpublished Soldier Writes:
Ok, like almost everyone here, I have never heard of Captain Harlock. However, I did a google search on the guy, and as I was looking through the first webpage that came up...
"Harlock's first love was Starsha."
What girly-man falls in love with someone with such a gay-ass name? Kirk wins, 'cause he has manliness and chest hair.
First Kirk will probably beam a few red shirted guys into arcadia to take the punishment. While he, Spock,McCoy and Scotty come up with an award-winning plan to blow up the arcadias engine.
No question Kirk is going to boldly go right over Harlock like a bulldozer.
Brendan W. Guy Writes:
Captain Kirk would win.
First things first, let's deal with the 800lb elephant in the room: the "Star Trek Must Lose" rule. Whatever validity that rule might normally have, it means nothing today. Today we are talking about Jim Kirk, and that means that faster than you can say "Kobayashi Maru" the rules are going to change. For once we will have a match that will be settled on the actual merits of the combatants involved, and that of course means that Kirk will fustigate Harlock.
Kirk routinely defeats gods, thumped the Klingon Empire so badly that a hundred years later it's being all but run by a bald Frenchman, and has scored with more women than Hugh Hefner and Wilt Chamberlain combined.
Kirk whupped Khan, mano a mano, an opponent with five times his strength. He survived a Klingon prison (and learned how to fight dirty in the process). And perhaps most important, Kirk knows how to fashion makeshift weapons from whatever's handy, and this time he's not limited to just sulfur and diamonds.
But what really gives this one to Kirk is pride. Kirk has it, Harlock doesn't, and since they are fighting for pride, that means Kirk is going to win.Kirk blew the Enterprise up rather than let it fall to the enemy. Because he had pride!
Harlock may manage to rip Kirk's shirt but when Kirk strikes back there won't be enough left of Harlock to fill a carbonite ice cube.
Seeing Captain Harlock in a CBUB match makes me more than happy. Sure he's gonna lose to Kirk simply because people don't know who he is, but I don't care. Captain Harlock is THE man.
Captain Harlock would win.
A quick count of Star Trek episodes shows that Captain Kirk has been captured no less than thirty-three times, and the Enterprise hijacked seventeen times on top of that. Kirk's been waylaid by Klingons, Romulans, Romans, Greeks, Nazis, gangsters, hippies(!), multicolored brains in a Pop-o-Matic™ bubble, and not once but twice by children!
Kirk's never been able to hold onto a woman for more than one episode.
Harlock is too tough, and too smooth, for Kirk to handle.
Sorry, I was just looking up 'fustigate': vt., to criticize severely. Oooh, I bet Harlock is quaking, knowing that Kirk is threatening to give him a talking-to! That may work when Kirk's arguing computers into suicide, but it's no help here. Besides, in such a dramatic moment, Kirk will be more prone than usual to those long... slow... pauses... we know... so well... giving Harlock more time to shoot him while muttering "Boring conversation, anyway".
Harlock's plainly familiar with this establishment. No doubt he's already bribed the bar band to make sure they don't play anything remotely related to Star Trek action music. Without his fighting music backing him up, we all know Kirk is helpless.
Katrover Swatroad Writes:
At first, I was going to vote Kirk, the better to make up for the "Star Trek Must Lose" (TM) clause rampaging through Grudge Match (TM) (Okay, different site, but the two are related so there.). Then I discovered...
Harlock's ships is named Arcadia....after my hometown!
Gotta vote for the home team here!
(What, you were expectin' a humorous response? Eh.)
I doin't think Anyone can out comand Captain Kirk
There's no way Captain Kirk can defeat Captain Herlock. What has Kirk done? Yell "Khan" and say "Beam me up, Scotty" a lot. Herlock was one of the first to blaze a trail into space and has eluded authorites and taken on far stronger and more terrifying than anything Kirk has ever done. He charged into what was an obviously a trap to save his crew, based on a NOTION that his first officer would try to stall them. He and his crew made it out unscathed. That and the Arcadia looks a lot more kick-ass than the enterprise, and Captain Harlock has a cool-ass gun.
Ranma Fan Writes:
well is sugested this battle and im gona say it plain and clear Harlok will win, Kirk will be crucified im gona give a list of their advantages and disadvantages
crew is loyal and dependable
can ram into the enterprise
supirior fire power and skill
2 women want him
those huge cannons on his ship
this man fought and overpowered demons whith out any tecnology
can have kei distact Kirk
is THE greatest captain who ever lived
is wanted by athorities yet considered a hero by the public
fearless and can cause fear (he scared the shit out of deomons whos power was to cause fear)
red shirts die in .5 seconds
all the smart crewmebers on the enterprise will revolt and join Harlock
all the red shirts on the enterprise will die horrible deaths in the first paragraph
face it Mcoy will be saying hes dead Jim so many times he will drain the air supply
the Best pirate wise kirk ever encountered was Harry Mud and Cyrano Jones and there are ultra lightweights compared to even the weakest of Harlocks crew
Harlock and the arcadia can single handedly defeat any empire in the star trek universe including the borg
Harlock can send Q Home crying
Kahn is a a second rate serial killer compared to Harlock
kirk will spew out a speach so annoying that Harlock will destroy the enterprise just to shut him up
the enterprise's shields, weapons and engins will fail
Spock will die followed shortly after by the rest of the crew
Harlock will take anything thats actually usefull on the enterprise
Harlock will bord the enterprise
when Harlock gets to the bridge of the enterprise an infuriated kirk will attack him and be easlly thrown th the floor then taken prisoner
the hole ordeal will end when kirk is skinned alive and thrown into space while still alive
game over Harlock 9999999, kirk -58
The Guru Writes:
GAAHHHHHHH! My head! My head! My Trekker side battling my Otaku side.... and with Harlock no less! GAAAHHHHHHH!!!! Can't...decide...on...my...ownnn...must...roll...dice.....( rolls abunch of dice, consults 1st edition players handbook)....... KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRKKKKKKK!!!!!
Scooter Pie Writes:
Ok, let's analyze:
Advantages: A long history of bare-knuckle fighting about every race in the federation. The Enterprise, a powerful ship with a crew of 400 people. Hand phasers. Has defeated god-like beings and powerful artificial intelligences. Apparently immune to Alien STD's. Professional crew that are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the ship. Shields. Transporter.
Disadvantages: Toupee. Stilted speech.
Advantages: the Arcadia, a swiss army knife ship with 40 crewmen. Lots of fighter craft. Gravity Sabre. Long history of fighting Earth and Mazonians.
Disadvantages: Lack of depth perception. Started off as a failed Earth starship officer. Possibly alcoholic, chronically depressed or possibly bipolar. Crew is loyal, but made up of dodgy, unreliable sorts. Steers his ship with a old-fashioned wooden wheel, therefore the z-axis manuverability is questionable.
Kirk. Sorry, Anime and Manga fans. If this were Harlock vs. Commander Adama of the old school Battlestar Galactica, he might have a chance, but Kirk has the better crew, shields, a transporter to board Harlock's ship with, and a better ship.
The Unconquered Drifter-CH Writes:
Based primarily on other people's descriptions of Harlock, I have deciphered that he is a cold, emotionless man who spends his time dwelling on the loss of his true love. It seems that he's a bit of a drifter, trudging through life with no real goals. Because of this, it seems as if Kirk has it made. I've come to this conclusion based on the notion that whoever shows more emotion has more power. Look at Star Wars; although they say that a Jedi must not show emotion, the most powerfull Jedi of all, Vader, was a basketcase full of emotion. In the Hulk, Bruce Banner becomes the Hulk only when enraged. Lastly, in Teen Titans, Raven's powers run on emotions. The more emotion she shows, the more her powers flare.
Using this theory, once Harlock rips Kirk's shirt (or really pisses him off) he will go mad in adreneline powered velocity and tear Harlock apart. Also, both Captains have loyal crews, but Kirk's men also know him as a friend.
Close one. In the end, however, I have to give it to Harlock and the Arcadia, on the basis of superior engineering. The Arcadia is an unabashed combat vessel, while even in those early days of the UFP the Enterprise was hampered by Starfleet's 'we are not a military organization/our ships are not warships' mental block. Put bluntly, the Enterprise is woefully undergunned for its size in comparison to almost any other universe's starships. And while Kirk and Co. have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat repeatedly (and with great vigor, as a good friend of mine is often wont to say), Harlock and his crew are no slouches in that department.
Kirk is lucky if anyone can recognize the debris after this fight.
The Arcadia is a vessel built for battle. How well built? It is considered the second greatest battleship ever in its own universe.
Let us observe physical trauma. Look at "The Harlock Saga". Gods at the center of the Universe drag the Arcadia across space, slamming it into the planet at the center of the Universe. The crew's reaction? Straighten the furniture, put the dishes back in the racks, and figure out which way is up with a quick look at the gauges. Then, just lift-off in that rough direction (through the ground as needed). Even on her maiden launch ("Arcadia of My Youth"), the Arcadia smashed through layers of bunker shielding and earth to get to the sky from its underground construction area. When has ANY Federation vessel survived violent contact with large physical objects? Needless to say, it takes overwhelming odds to actually to even attempt to damage the Arcadia.
As for fire power? Once again, "Harlock Saga". Vessels built by an exiled god ran into the Arcadia, and a fight ensued. The gunner/builder's comment? "Just give me the direction and the rough range. The main guns will take care of anything within 10 kilometers." In other words, the near miss the guy made blew both enemy vessels into itty-bitty chunks. For another comparison, a Constitution Class vessel is 289 meters long. The main guns of the Arcadia are capable of hitting the Enterprise (NC-1701 as specified) from 34 times the Enterprise's length away. Has any Federation vessel scored a hit with such a great difference in where the target is and where the shot went? As for strenght, well, the main guns take out ships, asteroids, and the like with impunity, so effectiveness should be just fine.
Harlock's ability to captain a vessel is another valid question. Simply watch the first part of "Arcadia of My Youth", clearly showing Harlock as a highly decorated Captain known to survive in situations where he had no hope (note, captaining a ship far less capable than the Arcadia). Even the enemy empire praised his skill, and I believe even tried to recruit him.
As for a fight between the Captains? Harlock is an expert marksman and a very quick draw. His side-arm is the Cosmo Dragoon, a handgun capable of putting a pencil-sized hole through the hull of the third greatest battleship in his universe, known for fighting scores of opponents at once. More accurately, through the third's shields and into its hull. In his lifestyle as a pirate, he lives by his reflexes, power, and charisma, so I doubt Kirk will be able to hit him with a phaser first.
As for manliness? Set Kirk in a room with a lady, and he gets laid. Set Harlock in a room with a lady, and she'll chase him to the end of the galaxy trying to get laid. My vote goes to the guy who doesn't have to touch the woman to get her to long for him.
So, you pit a highly decorated captain, coupled with a vessel and crew that consider crash landings into planets and wiping out asteroids and a score of battleships as a relatively easy day? Against one of the best Starfleet officers in a much frailer, less powerful ship?
My vote goes to Harlock and the Arcadia simply ramming straight through the Enterprise and not noticing it.
What kind of weapons are common in Harlock's universe? I ask because alot of peple don't realize there is a dramatic differance between the destructive power of a Laser, and a Phaser. Lasers do minimal damage to Star Trek sheilds. Plus, there's as big a differance, if not bigger, between Photon Torpedos and Phasers as there is between Lasers and Phasers. Even if the Arcadia does have a super weapon, if it's like most anime super weapons then it only fires straight ahead, and might even need some charge up time. Federation ships can tag you no matter where they are in relation to your ship. Underneathe, on top, to the side, front and back, it doesn't matter. Sometimes with multiple phaser banks. Not sure if Kirk's enterprise has multiple phaser banks or not though.
But it seems to me, the enterprise has the edge in firepower, defense, and maneuverability. It's highly unlikely Harlock can get Kirk to just sit still and let him use the super cannon.
Plus trickiness. Unless Harlock has sheilds, Kirk can drop his for a few seconds, never once letting up on a constant Phaser barrage, and start beaming Harlock's crew, filtering out their weapons of course, straight to the brig. Or beam Harlock himself there. And since this is sort of a "holodeck" match, if I understood things correctly, Kirk can be really merciless if he wants, and beam Harlock's holographic crew straight into open space.
Could be wrong though. I, like most people here never heard of Harlock until this battle, and was never that big a fan of the original star trek anyway. I'm more a TNG, and DS9 kinda guy.
There's one word to describe Cpt. Harlock...Wanabee. That's right,wanabee. He may have this "I'm so sexy" look to him,but a smooth body never helped Kirk win a battle. It was pure cunning skill that helped Cpt. Kirk win. Score one for the Kirk and the Enterprise.
BTW Harlock, I'll be carving your tombstone ahead of time.
I cant believe that anyone in their right mind would vote for Harlock. what the hell is this crap. Kirk is hands down the greatest warrior of all time and space. he's seen it all, beat it up and then had sex with its girlfriends. I predict five soft light close ups, 4 judo chops and one flying dropkick will end this farce of a matchup. Heck, with Harlocks fruity long hair, kirk might even mistake him as a woman and then this match up is over instantly, cus kirk will make him his bitch.
The Invisible Voice of Mortal Kombat Writes:
I know of both captains and their individual tales of adventure and honor!
It's hard for me to decide, because they are equal!
However if I have to make a Forced vote I would have to go with-
James T. Kirk
Dark Queen Writes:
Captain Kirk is a man among men. Women love him, men respect him, and ensigns want to be like him.
Besides, he fills out that shirt quite nicely.
Keyser Soze Writes:
Now to get on subject at hand. Kirk would win b/c he is like the ill-fated Energizer Bunny he won't stand still for nothing. The Enterprise is a highly manuerverable ship. Yes Kirk has fought blindly before, without knowing where the USS Reliant was(Wrath of Kahn anybody)when he went into some nebula. Harlock's crew does not stand a chance of the never ending Red-Shirted Ensigns (one dies, here comes another one) Kirk would Judo chop or Double Axehandle the living crap out of Harlock. My older brother knows the skinny about Harlock and said Harlock was in for a bunch shit when he heard that Kirk was going against him. Nothing can defeat a Vulcan in heat. I believe that it was Groundskeeper Willie that said:"Nothing alive can outrun a greased Scotsman", that goes for Scotty too. Sure, Harlock has a super giant weapon of mass destruction. How well can they hit a moving target? All what the crew has to do is tell Kirk that Harlock is at allegiance with Klingons. Then he will scream "Haaarrrloooockk" and will fly circles around his ship and fire phasers and photon torpedoes while he is beaming Harlock's crew into the cold depths of space.
Daniel Lewis Writes:
I think Kirk will win. You just cannot defeat classic Star Trek.
Shout out to Dog Day, Black Knight, and Keyser Soze:
(Kirk impression):There--should be--less--hatred here.These--beliefs...feelings...things that we have--make us human--make us... ourselves. The Skyman ...has a right... to say these things. If you...say--he doesn't, then we--are no...better than... animals!
Kirk will win. Why? Hes craftier. Hes a tactical genius.
On top of that, there is the vaunted Star Trek STA (Space-Time Anomaly). In the event Kirk starts losing, he'll just say "Wait...What's that? ...It seems to be...some kind...of a ...space...time anomaly." Riker will then show up from the future (with the Enterprise J with cloaking and plasma torpedo death rays of ultimate blowyourassuppage.
WONDY: Apparently quite a bit. Thor
what's the current situation...
THOR: Harlock is sitting in the
Arcadia having a drink waiting for Kirk to make his presence known.
Kirk is currently on the Queen Emeraldas wooing her with his ardour.
WONDY: Oh please, he isn't that good.
THOR: I say that we find out.
KIRK: Emeraldas, you must help me
locate Harlock. He - must - be brought to heel. I - was - chosen to lead
this - alliance - against the Illumidus Empire.
EMERALDAS: Harlock will do what he
feels is right, regardless of you being here.
KIRK: But, is that what - you - truly
- feel - is right? Look, I know you - loved - Tochiro, but he isn't here. I
am - here - now. *Attempts to embrace*
EMERALDAS: *Holds rapier point to
Kirk's... neck* I'll help you, but you give me what I want first... and you
- know - what I'm talking about. *fades to black*
WONDY: I don't think we need any more
of that. Has Harlock changed positions?
THOR: Nay. He is still drinking and
brooding. I think that he is in deep contemplation.
WONDY: Kirk is back on the
Enterprise. He hands the coordinates off to Sulu who punches them in.
THOR: Spock has apparently located the
schematics of the Arcadia and he has relayed that information to
Kirk. My, that goatee is a new look for Spock. I like it.
WONDY: The Enterprise is making
haste towards the Arcadia. Harlock is not moving. He has chosen his
space, clear empty space. All systems are primed and ready for action.
THOR: Yes, here now comes the
Enterprise. Kirk is out of warp and with maximum sub-light speed. All
power is to the forward shields.
WONDY: Harlock is making an offhand
remark to crewman Tadashi.
HARLOCK: I don't have the time to
handle this in a diplomatic way . All guns fire.
WONDY: Harlock is taking full
advantage of the Arcadia's considerable reach. The
Enterprise's shields have taken the initial barrage.
THOR: Spock is looking down into the
sensor array. Red alert claxons are screaming signaling battle stations.
WONDY: Harlock is standing at the
wheel stone faced. He orders a second barrage. Which hits again and shakes
the Enterprise like really bad turbulence.
THOR: Kirk is ordering a full photon
torpedo spread. He wants the ship disabled but not destroyed.
WONDY: Harlock is standing his ground
and is ordering another barrage.
THOR: The Enterprise shuddering
about like a knorr in a hurricane, but is holding together. There goes
Scotty up the Jefferies tube.
WONDY: Harlock steers to avoid the
oncoming torpedoes while steering towards the Enterprise.
THOR: Kirk orders evasive action and
orders Checkov to take out the Arcadia's deck guns.
WONDY: The ships nearly collide as they
trade heavy fire. The Enterprise's shields are down and Uhura's comm
panel fries out. The bridge crew shakes to port.
THOR: The Arcadia is listing
starboard as another photon spread batters it.
WONDY: Harlock is quickly assessing the
damage and is ordering his crew to be alert for a landing party.
THOR: Kirk won't allow him the
opportunity as he orders the Enterprise's phaser banks' setting to
wide-angle stun and fires.
WONDY: Spock is scanning for life
signs. It appears the crew of the Arcadia is stunned save one.
THOR: Kirk trusts his atoms to science
as beams aboard to the deck of Arcadia where Harlock is waiting.
HARLOCK: Let's finish this. *Harlock's
hair and banner flutter in the wind*
KIRK: Then come on. Stop standing there
with your sword looking pretty.
THE FINAL VOTE
THE WRAP UP
WONDY: Harlock quickly makes a lunge at
Kirk slashing with his rapier.
THOR: Kirk dodges the blow, and verily
his garment is slashed. Quickly he spins, but not with a punch; instead it's
with the broken arm of Wawa the Robot and lays out Harlock.
WONDY: I guess that settles that. For
alls of here at CBUB, Thank you and see you next week.
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